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What is 1 Cor. 13:11 talking about?

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Comment by Mick Alexander on July 21, 2016 at 20:51

Hello Onesmas,

It is no wonder to me at all ... man is a sinner.

God bless,

Mick

Comment by Onesmas Riungu on July 21, 2016 at 18:49
The Polarity of Truth: A Study on how to Understand the Apparent Contradictions in the Bible

Have you ever wondered why there are Armenians, hyper-Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals, Anglicans, Seventh-day Adventists and several other Christian religious denominations; and yet we all believe in the same Bible? Have you ever wondered why there are such differences between American Christians and kenyan Christians, and yet we are all reading the same Bible? Why do Christians who are believing the same word of God end up looking at things in quite different ways?

http://teachingthetreasures.com/preaching-point/sermon-series/56-th...

Comment by Mick Alexander on July 20, 2016 at 8:19

Amen Onesmas, our hope is in Jesus.

One last thing. A local pastor converted a witch who spoke in tongues. She said that witches go into churches and curse the pastor and congregation in tongues (languages) they receive from the devil. They know what they are saying and are welcomed as sisters in Christ. In the Bible, all tongues were interpreted. How do you know that you are not cursing when you speak in tongues?

An Indian friend went to a local Pentecostal Bible college where the leader spoken in tongues and she said that he continually repeated the name of Hindu gods - this man was unknowingly calling up demons. How do you know you are not doing the same thing?

It is something to think about.

God bless,
Mick

Comment by Onesmas Riungu on July 20, 2016 at 4:55

Ok Mick,

let agree to disagree then, I dont believe in taking one text of the scripture and misinterpreting it to suit my theological stand and ignoring the rest of the chapter. I have liked the clip regarding Kundalini Spirit. I know there is alot of deception out there for those who just pursue the power without being firmly founded in the knowledge of the world. I have been preaching against these men inventions in the church: using and selling anointing oil, water with salt and other items which are being used. Misuse of giving principle with the seed gospel and so many other things. These are false doctrine to me as it is to those who say tongues, miracles, prophecy and knowledge ceased. I am Pentecostal to say that all since a fraction of Pentecostal is failing all have failed is like saying since Judas betrayed Jesus all apostles were bad.

What I know is salvation comes by believing in Jesus Christ, and am happy you believe in Christ Jesus.

God bless 

Comment by Mick Alexander on July 19, 2016 at 8:09

OK Onesmas. To me you are whitewashing the passage with love and ignoring the real context of cessation. But I will leave it at that as we are only going in circles.

God bless my friend,

Mick

Comment by Onesmas Riungu on July 18, 2016 at 18:26

Dear Mick,

Who said that tongues was to be one event activity? Knowledge, prophecy and knowledge did not cease. This what I have been explaining all along. I keep insisting you cant explain this verse outside the overall topic regarding Love. The same way Jesus summarized the the ten commandment with the word love. One cant argue that all commandment ceased by Jesus teaching love. To argue that one can commit adultery since that commandment ceased because he is loving. But if one has a profound insight of love will understand all commandments fits well if we love God and love our neighbors.

Apostle Paul is telling Philippians their love should be founded in knowledge and insight. If then he ment knowledge ceased then how can he tell them to Phil 1:9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and profound insight. If their love is not founded in knowledge and profound insight they will end up loving in error. Paul was persecuting christian because he loved God so much that he thought the Christians were blaspheming God. The way those who dont speak in tongues think of those who are filled of the spirit and do speak in tongues. lack of this profound insight of love is what paul is calling childish. One Thinks depending on what he knows and from the abundance of heart the mouth speaks.
blanket condemnation of Pentecostal is immoral and proves how biased one is, I know there some who are doing it out of malice and envy as Paul put it. and others who are working full of the power of the holy ghost casting out demons and demolishing satanic altars in society. But even Jesus was condemned and we thank God for today's pharisees. "Pharisees said, ‘No! This man sends *demons away by the power of Beelzebub."

Comment by Mick Alexander on July 18, 2016 at 9:58

Hello Onesmas,
In Mark 16, Jesus did say that tongues would be spoken and Acts tells us that this was fulfilled. But later on Paul said in 1 Cor. 13 that tongues would cease and that has been fulfilled also, after tongues had served its purpose as a sign of judgment to the Jews.

I believe that prophecy and knowledge were "in part" because the Bible itself was "in part" when Paul wrote 1 Cor.. The word "perfect" means "complete", and when Revelation as written, both prophecy and knowledge were complete and that is why they ceased - the Bible was complete.

Onesmas, you completely overlook the clear parallel of 1 Cor. 13:8 and 13.
Speaking = tongues
Thinking = knowledge
Reasoning = prophecy
This parallel is no coincidence.

You still have not given an in-context explanation for 1 Cor. 13:11. You continue to put the verses in the context of love, ignoring the surrounding verses and their context of the cessation of tongues, prophecy and knowledge.

I really don't understand how you can say that Paul's persecution and execution of Jews was childish love. That's an amazing interpretation.

Onesmas, there is another parallel which you should look at. All the strange manifestations in the Pentecostal movement are exactly the same as those that occur with the demonic Kundalini spirit in Hinduism. The following video shows this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA9lQCnmZ2A

God bless,
Mick

Comment by Onesmas Riungu on July 18, 2016 at 2:18

When Paul was in Judaism He had the love for God and he persecuted Christians, but it was childish love since it was not founded on true knowledge. Know he has received the light of Gospel when Jesus reveals himself to him and he is now mature and he stops thinking in childish way. Paul tells Phillipians to abound in love in knowldege. Phil 1:And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and profound insight. Its not enough to love but the love must be founded on the right knowledge otherwise we shall love what need not to be loved. That is childish thinking and talking. 

Coming from background where there is witchcraft sorcery and marine spirit practice is on high. my background of methodist could not cast out those things from believers with their knowledge but these tongues speaking believers who are edified can cast out these demons out. Like Paul said the former just  come with the convincing by the words of men, but the latter with the manifestation of power of God and not enticing words of Men. 

Comment by Onesmas Riungu on July 18, 2016 at 2:18

Before I dwell on John Wesley and methodism 1cor 13: When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. This was emphasis of Love over the gifts and knowledge. He says we prophecy in part and know in part. But love is the complete thing. If one has got all these things and not love you are lacking indeed, but if you have true love and not even have these gifts and knowledge then you are complete. I dont believe apostle Paul was referring to that prophecy, tongues and knowledge shall cease. Those propagating that tongues ceased but but on other side they are pursuing the knowledge about God. 

Comment by Onesmas Riungu on July 18, 2016 at 2:17

Dear Mike,

I dont imply the Holy Spirit can only manifest through tongues. It good that you are mentioning John Wesley having been raised in Methodist, but when I became of age I had to depart. I admire John Wesley in many ways, but he is not our standard since he had his fault too, Jesus is our standard who promised us speaking of tongues. Mark 16: 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not harm them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will be made well.”

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